How Ozone Works in the Body - Interview with Ozone Biochemist

How Ozone Works in the Body - Interview with Ozone Biochemist

Micah - The Ozonaut
37 minute read


- Doctor Re, you're an accomplished pharmacologist, and have sat at the editorial board of many prestigious medical journals. As a pharmacologist and a medical doctor, how did you get involved with the ozone therapy?

- So, this is a very long story. So, I started about 25 years ago. So, before that time, I never heard about ozone. So, what we knew before, was simply, that ozone was considered mostly as a pollutant, and so, when for the first time, as you know, I am a pharmacologist for 40 years of my life, starting from 1975, I work on the neuromuscular junction. So very, very complicated part of biophysiological and pharmacological point of view with very good experience, and I was really happy with my work, but you know, being a pharmacologist, at the end of my life, I saw that sometimes there was the failure of medicine, and in many cases, there are a lot of side effects. So, and the end of my career as pharmacologist, that I am now pharmacologist, so now at the end my career, at the end of the time, and my mind, I opened my mind to note different possibilities to help suffering people, because you know, my pharmacological point of view, what we can use are chemical, and we use chemical for example are agonist. If you want to increase the heart rate, so we can use an agonist, adrenaline, and if we want to reduce the heart rate, we can use an antagonist. So, what does it mean? Does it mean it's very simple to study, very simple to reach scientifically, because I can give just to some receptors one substance, that's similar to the adrenaline for reaching the same results, but that does not mean to follow exactly, what our body wants, because we know, that our body is the best machine to healing itself. It's my opinion, and now I am more and more convinced about this, but at that time, so our possibilities was medicine, agonist and antagonist, and in the same time, it was about 1993, I was in Cuba with professor Olga Sonia Leon, and for the first time in my life, she explained to me something very interesting, that so far, so far is very actual, but so far nobody exactly reach to characterize by scientific point of view. So she told me, "Lamberto, why you don't try ozone?" But Olga, ozone is simply gas like oxygen, so no receptors. How could we put by pharmacological point of view? She told me, look, ozone is a strong oxidant, so, if you use this strong oxidant, very low concentration, it could be possible that our cells, because all our cells use the same physiology, the same biochemistry. The biochemical pathway of ourselves is to burn oxygen. Burning oxygen, we produce energy, and this energy make the cell sometimes dirty, and she told me, okay, if we give a small oxidative stress below the threshold of damage, so you know, I can open sometimes some brackets, just to understand, what is harmful and what is not harmful? Because this is considered, only few people can understand talk about this, what is a venom? Or is venom nothing, so also why could be a venom? Also water, but sure, water is needed, we need, our body body need water. Only high quantity of water can damage us. So the idea of that small, brief, oxidative stress could be counteracted by the cells itself, destroying immediately the amount of ozone, the amount of called oxidant, but in the same times transfer this information to the DNA, and the DNA start to produce some protein, that counteract the damage induced by these oxidative stress. So, you can imagine, this was in 1993, and I want to tell you, that only two years ago, we found something, that could well fit with this idea. Also, if at that time, professor Olga Sonia Leon, meet too in Italy, we started to do some experiments just to test if really a small oxidative stress could be able to induce an antioxidant response by the cells, because my idea was, that if it is strong, it could be possible, that we can have benefit in many case, in all the cells, is important just only to make protocols, to make possible, that ozone can reach one kind of cells. So, this is the idea, but I want to go back to your one, two, three, four, five question. Also it's harmful for the lands, okay. At that time exactly I started to do a research on the web regarding the literature, the scientific literature to regarding ozone. All, I don't know, thousands, thousands reports regarding ozone, ozone is toxic for once. So, first, this was really, how could be possible, how can we use something, that is so hard for some tissues? Only later on also professor Bodgi says, we discovered, that the reason why ozone, or any other toxic substance, is toxic, is just because on the other side, so on this kind of cells, there are absolutely no antioxidant defenses. So, for example, in the lung, in the alveoli, the fluid, there is no antioxidant at all. So if we don't have antioxidant, only a small amount of ozone and oxidant could be hard to lance.

- And what about, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off there, but what about infusing ozone into the colon? Is there an antioxidant defense there, or what kind of effect does that have on the gut biome?

- Yes, as you can see, as you know, I was telling you before, you told me, that there are a lot of protocols. A lot of protocols all around the world. So, I visited China, I visited the United States, I visited Spain, Germany, most of the doctors use different concentration, and this different concentration are important, because any kind of tissues is its own antioxidant defense. For example, in the blood, the antioxidant defense is very high in the blood, so in the blood we can reach very high concentration, because we have to always remember, that we had to use the concentration that is below the antioxidant capability of the tissues, where ozone will be injected. So, in the colon, in the colon we have the medium. So usually, we don't give any hard, any problem, using low concentration, because you know ozone is important because we have the possibility to use it at very high concentration, if you want to sterilize. For example if we have infected wound, so by not systemic treatment, by topic treatment, we can destroy all the virus and bacteria, but this very high concentration must be more than 80, 90 micrograms. Usually the colon, if you use the correct concentration, so below the antioxidant capability, the only response, that you can have, is an adaptative response from the tissues, that start to produce positive protein, that protect against this oxidative, but without any other damage. To my experience, and also the experience of Cuba, we have a lot of experience of rectal concentration in the colon, so we never ever about problem at this level.

- Okay, so as I'm understanding it, as long as you're not exceeding the antioxidant threshold of the tissue, that you're administering the ozone to, there's not gonna be any harm done, because the antioxidants are able to basically absorb the ozone, but that starts a biochemical process.

- Exactly, exactly, so it's like I give a kick to you. If it is too strong, I kill you.

- I don't want that.

- And if it is too soft, oh, I love you, but if is the right range, I don't kill you, and you will be able to give me a response. Just the same, this is a traumatic stimulus, a mechanical, in the case of also it's an oxidative stimulus and I will explain later, what is so exciting. Why I am so excited now we got some therapy, because we know more about this systemic approach. So, when at the beginning, when you started this conversation, I told when I use adrenaline, I increase the heart frequency. When I smile, a lot of neuromediators in my brain go to the right neuron and I, if I'm sad, there are other neurons. So, I am modifying my status just simply myself. So, what I want to say, that instead of good medicine in my brain to be happy, serotonin, or some other biology, possibly causing to be sad, I want to give you something, that make possible, that your body will respond with the right response. So it does mean epigenetic. We have in the DNA the possibility to do everything, and you can imagine, if with this oxidative stress, that is not so harmful, not so high, I can give an information, because many years ago, when I was invited in Dubai, some people there told me, a doctor said, the prayer in the morning, very early in the morning, when the rise sun, will set your soul, and one gas will set your body, so. I don't know, I asked immediately, please give me, where is written this? Because really, I usually since the time, when I started and in the literature only pollution, only pollution, only pollution regarding to ozone, I started to ask also to my students during my lessons in the medical faculty, if we come back just 100 year less, we can't find the bad ozone. So, the bad ozone, the pollution is produced by man. In the natural, after a storm, or during the rise sun in the morning, when the oxygen go out from the hill, and from the harbor, it's very small amount of ozone, and coming back to our body. So, our body, god, I don't know who, told the man on the Earth, they told, you want to live here? Okay, I give you the possibility to live here, but you must know, that if you want to live here, you need to breathe oxygen, and if you breathe oxygen, you will die from this breathing oxygen, the oxidative stress. Does mean, that when we're born til when we age, it must be in homeostasis between the oxygen, the parts in ourselves, the used energy, and the antioxidant capability. I suppose, that in our blood, some people put one sensor. One sensor just to verify, the total process . If this process is not in equilibrium, could be possible, that the cells start a prototype reaction, who come back. I don't know if you're aware of this concept, but two years ago, just reading one paper, very beautiful paper on pharmacological reviews, it was introduced in system's medicine. So, system's medicine does mean not to treat the illness or the disease, looking at the mechanism, the pathologies, but looking at the mechanism, that is below, and this paper was really wonderful, and was published in 2018, and really this paper, so in your approach to medical therapy, not organ therapy, but adaptive therapy. So, and it was introduced the concept of this sensor, that this one sensor, that Kortrovit checked every day the level of oxidative stress inside the cells. If the oxidative stress increase, this sensor, that is one protein, that now it has been identified, is the Nrf2, this protein start to move to the DNA in one hour, that now I read yesterday just another paper. It seems, that this Nrf2 control about 1,000 of genes. Among these genes, there are a lot of possibilities to healing the tissues. So, we have gene, that modulate the immune system. We have gene, that modulate the circulation. There are gene, that modulate the inflammation. There are gene, that modulate the tissues, remodeling, and does it mean, that if we can put all together, ozone could induce a powerful response in several diseases, that at the base, as mechanism of action, as oxidative stress, as we know oxidative stress itself is responsible for aging. Oxidative stress is responsible for cancer. So, I don't want to talk, to give any hope to nobody. I'm a scientist and okay, could be possible, that I am a stupid man, but I am not a stupid scientist. So, I know very well, that there are thousand people with beautiful results, but we lack so far, what is the connection? Why these people come in our clinic to pay and feel good? In 25 years I treated many, many people, and I can't promise nothing more, because ozone really, it could be our cells. I don't think that it's a therapy, it's ourselves. It's like sport, training, or like you eat, diet, no? If you good or if you have sport every day, your body, the level of oxidative stress reduce, and the possibility to counteract the effect of this problem is reduced.

- So, as I'm understanding it, so this equilibrium of oxidative stress is something, that we wanna maintain. We wanna have a homeostasis of oxidative stress, of oxidative stress, antioxidant, oxidative stress, antioxidant. So, what you're supposing with the ozone therapy, what is going on, is that we're stimulating under the antioxidant.

- Modulate, modulate. Okay, ozone modulate some of this, upregulate or downregulate. So, the difference between ozone for example or agonist and antagonist, just to come back to the previous example, agonist always induce a positive effect, antagonist always induce a negative effect. In the case of ozone, ozone is not a direct molecule, give the final results. The final results come back from the upregulation of these genes, that modulate one kind of response. For example the gene, that regulate the inflammatory response, if there is an inflammation, they can induce the production of antibodies and cytokines. If we have excess of oxidative stress, the gene, that produce for example superoxide dismutase, so catalyzes, they start to produce more protein, more antioxidants. So, the response is a different level. I come back to the papers, that I mentioned before. This paper was published in a very high, important factor journal, but they are looking for some substance like curcumin, that can modulate the release of this Nrf2. Not only talk about ozone therapy, because really, it is not easy, for example quantify the effect of this mild oxidative stress. So, you know, one of the problem, that we have with ozone therapy, is that the response from the patient are completely different. It's very difficult to put all together one single response for every patient. We have some patient, that after one treatment feel good. Other patient, that need more than one therapy. So, this is the reason, why we need more studies of this, but if you look for some substance, that can increase the modulation of Nrf2, it is not easy to do this for ozone therapy.

- It seems like a really good therapy, that produces a lot of beneficial results. Why are they so opposed to ozone therapy, when there seems to be not a enough scientific data to tell us definitively, what is happening, but there is enough scientific data to pose a question, is ozone therapy worth studying more? And it seems like the answer is yes, because there is quite a bit there.

- Yes, the problem is that we do not have enough sponsor to do this kind of research. So, I told you before, that many scientists are looking for some molecule, that chemical, that can stimulate, modulate the Nrf2 pathway, but it's not possible to put money to study ozone. So, ozone is not stable molecule, you know. So, it's not possible to go to the pharmacy, so, with no effect in marketing, this is the reason. If we don't tell the marketing, if you have money, you put your money to study some things, that never will go back to you, what you put as sponsor, it's very difficult. So, this will be something, that also, the professional, the minister of health, they have to start to study and to fix the problem. Okay, it could be possible, that also it could be helpful, now we have only the evidence based medicine. So, we know, that a lot of people all over the world is doing ozone therapy, is happy, pay, but really, we don't know exactly how is by a scientific point of view, how can we check this? So, to do this we need to do for example clinical studies, but with different concept. So if we start an holistic response, it's very difficult to study. If I add to the science a protocol, a clinical protocol to verify the effect of ozone, for example in the disc herniation, okay, I can do this. In this case it's very simple, because we can see the disc herniation before and after the treatment, and there are many awards, many papers. This is the reason why for example in the case of disc herniation there is more to study, but in other cases, for example in the age, so what can we do is an epidemiological studies coming back, but who pay for this, who pay? I had to pay myself, it's not possible, and I need some sponsor, so, sometimes I tried to talk with the minister of health or the institution to telling them, okay, this time we do not have enough money to pay all the cure, all the medical treatment for the people. In this time, thanks to god, we have the people, that live 10 or 15 years more. So, why we don't look to the possibility to use this resource to all the people to reduce the damage of their aging? Because we know, that aging is oxidative stress. An unbalancement of this antioxidant and pro-oxidant. So, if we are sure, we have enough data, for example one of the gene promoted by ozone at the low dose is the antioxidant, we need to study to verify this condition, but this study need money, so, you can't go to the pharmacy and buy one kilogram of ozone. So, it's not possible.

- Yeah, it is just a very unfortunate situation, because I mean, it's just in the margins. I mean, so, ozone therapy is something, that seems like it could be really effective, but with the way the system is set up, there is just not much opportunity for you to study it, unless you have somebody, who just wants to essentially donate money for the benefit of humanity.

- So, you're right, you see, it's a very complicated patent. So, I don't want to side with nobody, and usually all over the world I tried to talk also with my colleagues, because we have a lot of people asking for this treatment, and the people feel good, okay, but this does not mean, that we reach the right to propose. We need some help and we need also, what can I say? I told you before, I visited a lot of country all over the world, in the United States, in Latin America, in China, so, there is the protocols used are completely different. So, now we are try with the World Federation of Ozone Therapy to start to give some suggestion, not protocols, because the protocols does mean straight rules regarding the administration. In the case of analystics, systemic approach, we can't ever be straight rules, but every therapy, every treatment must be personalized to the people. It's very complicated, but we are trying to do this suggestion, for example use this range of concentration, looking at the status of the patients, but not one concentration for each illness.

- Okay, I didn't realize, that was the purpose of the ranges, is just to give more autonomy to the doctor to be able to do, what they think is a beneficial thing for the patient. So, I see, so, that kind of leads me into another question. You see people doing a very low dose like Hansler, did his paper on the way those concept of ozone, and how using a very low dose of ozone can stimulate beneficial results, but you have people on the other side of it doing like ten-pass, like Doctor Lahodny, what would be your opinion on some of those higher dosages of ozone therapy?

- This is a very big question.

- I know, I don't wanna throw you in the hot water.

- I am in the middle, but I am in the middle not because I don't want to take a position on this. I know, as I told you before, that when we talk about blood, okay, the range could be very, very high, because in the blood you can start with 10, and we can arrive to 70, and the problem of ten-pass, is for example, okay, could be possible, that it works. I don't know and I am sure, that patient treated with ten-pass feel better, but the problem is the anticoagulant. It's not the amount of ozone, because as I told you before, the antioxidant capability of blood is very, very high. So, what does it mean? That in any condition, all the people follow to be submitted to ozone therapy, does mean, that their molecule, if it's not damaged, and so you can't break, nobody so far proposed the lower folic to give also by mouth breathing, because it's not possible. You kill the people, okay, but in any other case you have very large range of concentration, and the final results is, that most of the people feel good. So, to my opinion we need to consider, to revise, and to study this phenomenon. What can I say? It's like every day you have training, training, training, but if you give training higher than your possibility, you can die, you can't come to us for that. So, but in the range you can walk for 50 meters a day, but you can walk also til 150 meters, no? It's the same, if you walk 50 meters only a day, perhaps you need a longer time to reach the best result, the best perform, but the range is very high in this . So, usually I used to use this kind of paragon, how can I say? To talk about sport and ozone, so you know also the problem of doping, no, is not possible. I never want to, it's absolutely not correct to talk about doping with ozone therapy, because also therapy is not a medicine, absolutely. Ozone is not the medicine, the medicine is our body. Now it's clear this. So if I am trained, sure, I run better than you, if you are not trained, but does not mean, that if I am trained, that I am top fit, no? So that is the reason, why.

- Well, I have a number of questions from that. I think the first one is, what seems to be a phenomena with ozone is that you have very low doses of ozone, that are stimulating a beneficial result, and then you have very, relatively, high doses of ozone therapy, that are stimulating results. So it's like, man, there's a very big operating window for ozone therapy here, and where that exactly sits, and which one is the best one, it doesn't seem like we're too certain of yet.

- Sure, my opinion is, that we had to use in relation to the body weight of the people. So, this is one. We can't give for example 10 micrograms or 15 micrograms to older patients or young people, the body weight is 20 or the body weight is 70. So, this condition must be considered in the future, and sure, some people told you if we increase the concentration, but we talked of any relationship within the concentration and the modulation of Nrf2. So for the future, what we need, it could be possible perhaps, that the modulation of this, of these pathways, biochemical pathway inside, but there are many other because now we are starting for example in the case of arthritis of the knee, there is one protein, that is Mdm2 protein, that seems to be involved in the osteoarthritis, and also this protein could be upregulated by low ozone doses, low or high, we don't know. Now, what we need, but I don't think, that there are papers so far published in this kind of field. I want to see for example 20 micrograms are able to modulate Nrf2 for how many days? Or 60 micrograms, so six times the same concentration, every different results in terms of modulation, because as you know, also simply just I give you one stimulus and all the other things inside our body depend upon the transmission of Nrf2 to the DNA, the protein synthesis also, that is different, and there are also other, for example supplement, that we need supplement, because also if we increase the protein synthesis of some antioxidant like superoxide dismutase catalysis, we need for example that our level of selenium, and other, magnesium, and other mineral, oligo element are very important because they catalyze the enzymatic reaction. So, if we give ozone to one patient with low level of this oligo element, we don't have any results immediate. There are a lot of variables, a lot of variables, and I have in my mind now, I'm approaching a new, a randomized style, perhaps you missed that, because I found was so full of myself, there is big people here interested to do this kind of research, so I want to start to do a randomized, clinical studies on 30 or 40 patients, just to see, if the modulation is modified by the concentration of ozone in the blood, starting from 10 and arriving til 70, 60.

- For ozone in the blood, if you exceed, I know this might not be a great question to ask either, because I'm sure there's some controversy there, but the standardization is not to exceed 80 micrograms per milliliter, per ml of blood. If you exceed 80 micrograms per milliliter, per ml of blood, what happens? Because I know, that we don't see an immediate lysing of the red blood cells, so that you have to exceed even more than that, to get actual lysing of the blood cells, but what happens in between those places, I guess?

- So, the problem is the white cells, not the blood cells.

- Okay, the white cells.

- The white cells, so, because we need them. The red cells, the blood cells, erythrocytes, are really not so important for the results, no. So if we kill, we know every three months we have new erythrocytes, so no problem. The problem is that the white cells, so when we give the conditioning, the oxidative conditioning with ozone, really we modulate the activity of the white cells, and there the high concentration could be possible, that they are not able to respond with adaptive to this. There are some not paper, but demonstration by Nasaroff now about high concentration, so but, really, I want to start low and not to raise this kind, because there is any, to my opinion, there is any evidence, that really this high concentration give better results, so far.

- Okay, yeah, that's a fair statement, and so the white blood cells, what is it doing? Is it killing them, is it deactivating them, what is it doing?

- Yeah, deactivate, they can't activate the gene carrier to produce the response to the stimulus. That is the problem.

- Okay.

- If we kill erythrocytes, no problem, not important.

- No problem, just don't worry about them, yeah.

- They are that cell, they just transport oxygen, but we have only a few part in our body, in the bottle.

- That makes sense, because I was seeing some of this from professor Nasaroff as well, and there's been some other questions, that I've had on that topic, because there seems to be more of an increase of these high dose therapies and what seems to be exceeding the standard, that has been set for it. So, yeah, thanks for adding that in.

- So, the standard is very difficult to do that. We are trying, now I am trying to in the next congress in Chile in November, we have a meeting of the Latin America Societies and we are preparing some guidelines, but not really guidelines, just proposal, and for example I do not agree to forbid one technique, I am open to every kind of technique. We must be absolutely open to all the colleagues, that want to try different, because if they are able to demonstrate, that there are beautiful results, okay, no problem, but what sometimes I suggest to my colleagues, is that so far ozone is not, so, we know I work, all the people works all over the world, so they are the authority for forbidden this kind, I don't know, officially for money, forbidden this kind of treatment, but they are scientist, so I can't understand. Try, I try to exam evidence, written evidence about the use of ozone. So, this is very strange. We can use ozone, there are formal forbidden about this, but it's tolerated, so the people can use it. So, I can't understand, where is the truth, no? And also you have the States, for example, there are, I know, that in New York, in other states it's allowed to do ozone. It's not forbidden, but it's not accepted by Food and Drug Administration. Or why? Or you close, or you open.

- Well, I think part of it is, they don't wanna have to regulate it, and it's so set up, like you were saying earlier for the studies and the money, that funds those studies, that it just doesn't give much room for these other therapies, because if they said, yeah, ozone works or ozone does something, then all of a sudden they'd have to make a genuine attempt at regulating it, where if they just say, no ozone, they don't have to do anything, they can just say no, and they're already at capacity, they're doing a lot of different stuff, so, I think, it's just one of those things, that's been left in the margins, and there's not much hope until somebody is gonna sponsor, like you said.

- But I am sure, I'm sure about this, we are not ready so far, really. The world is not ready, and I am sure, that this will be the therapy of the future. I don't know if after my death, but will be the future, because when some fixed roads will be discovered, ozone is the results for all the people, for all the people. Usually I suggest my friend, my family, you don't wait to be sick, please. Ozone, ozone before, ozone prevents the damage of the age, prevents, that own cells became sick. So, you can imagine, if this cell is one cell of my brain, I can have neurological disorders. I don't mean, I don't want to say, that we can cure, that you can prevent Alzheimer or Parkinson, I don't know, but there are no medicine. These people, that is growing, because is growing the age, must be treated with some things, and so it is obvious, that now, if we have some biochemical evidence, that ozone therapy reduce the damage also of the neuron, if one neuron is in perfect status, sure, remain healthy, avoiding, that some disease, illness occur. That is important, reading these papers, we can see, that this Nrf2 controls many disease. Apparently heterogeneous. So, it is possible to think, that ozone modulate Nrf2, so ozone can be helpful. I don't want to say, that it will be the cure everything. So we don't have the proof, because we don't 10,000 patient treated for this, that is the reason.

- Yeah, and I think, that's one of the very simple things, that almost sounds stupid to say, is the best way to not get sick, is to not get sick. Just by staying healthy and doing the things, that are good for you and ozone therapy is one of those, it seems.

- Exactly, exactly.

- So what are the primary, if you had to list out the primary pathologies, that you see a beneficial response to the ozone, what might those be?

- So, what can I say? So, the back pain is absolutely the first.

- Herniated disc?

- The pain, yes, now I am writing one chapter for one book to treat the cancer pain, because in cancer pain just complementary to chemotherapy, we can reduce the pain. So in this context we have the evidence of wonderful results. So, what can I say? Also in the aging, I have many observations. You can see for example in some people, all elder people, that they can reduce the damage of age, really, and another situation in which we can have a good result is hepatitis. Hepatitis is wonderful, if you have high level of transaminases, after autoimmune therapy the blood treatment, we can reduce this. So, in the immune modulation you can prevent for example some vitamin C and other supplement, you can increase the, modulate the immune system. This is the best, so I don't want to talk about cancer. There are many colleagues, that are working on this with excellent results, so, I open my eyes, I open my mind to everything, but as I told you, I am in love with ozone. Ozone is a small baby and we have to take care about this baby, because we don't want to kill him before he grow, because I'm sure the next future, it will grow a lot. So, you must be very intelligent to stay quiet, to do other observation, it's possible to put on journals our clinical results or if not randomize it, some case report. I published some case report, only one case, two case, but could be indicative of good results. So maintain a low level, open to it, avoiding to fight within us and this is the reason, why I accepted to go in Chile the next November, in Chile my conference I want to put all together, and also in Naruba the next year, where they invited me, so there are several groups of ozone therapists, and with lot of people, because these people have a hope. The hope is to help suffering people. I am a pharmacologist, some people inside my group tell me, hey, Lamberto, at the beginning, you're wrong. Now most of my colleagues and me, you're right. Please go home, that slogan. That is for me important. We could see every day people suffering, okay, medicine are wonderful, okay, we did some good step, but most of the people in reality so far die without any possibility, sorry. So, I am not in love also for myself, I am in love for the people, that suffer, and there are no possibility for them, and there is no doctor so long in the world, that can say one patient, no, I have nothing for you, no. We always let to look for something, tomorrow is another day, tomorrow could we have more information, that can help us to help these people. That is important. So, this is the reason, why I love all my colleagues working in ozone therapy, they must really deem to be here, not, I don't know, how can I say? They had to stay with the back right in front of discussion, tell them the opinion and be sure, that they are trying to help people, just using something different, but in conjunction, not in alternative. I don't try alternative, because nothing is alternative. Ozone alone can do nothing without some other helper from medicine for example or from training, or supplementation all together, we can reach the results to help suffering people, that so far don't have any possibility to be healed.

- I appreciate your passion on that and that's one of the reasons I love this group of doctors too, is because a lot of them, when they choose to do ozone therapy, they're putting themself at risk. So, they're not choosing it for the money, they're not choosing it for really any other reason than helping the patient and that's why a lot of these practitioners, and not all of them, you got bad apples everywhere, but a good core of them really wanna see their patients get better, and I think, that's largely the reason, why ozone therapy is even where it's at today at, because a lot of these people are very genuine in their work and in their care, and a lot of the people, that discredit it, as soon as it became popular, they would accept it. It's just that it's not popular , that they don't accept it, or there's no money in it.

- Now, that is very important, very important. Sometimes when we use an holistic approach, or systemic approach like ozone therapy, it is important, that you transfer your patient to your patient, because your patient must help you. So, when I give a medicine, if I give you adrenaline or to you or to other 100 people, the heart rate increased all other people, does not mean, that I give you something good, but if I want, that your heart come back normal, just giving you a small oxidative stress, I want to put your body in the condition to healing itself. To be sad or to be happy, to be happy now is simple, my serotonin is increased, I am happy, or I am sad, because there is something, I had to pay tomorrow, so I am very sad. The movement of my neuromediators.

- Yeah, and I echo that, I mean, drugs are not the best form of medicine. Your body is the best form of medicine.

- Absolutely.

- If you can get your body into a state, where it has the homeostasis, that equilibrium, that perfect middle, you're gonna be able to heal from a lot more things than any drug can do.

- Sure, we can't go over our body. When we act on the receptors, we go over our body, and could be possible, that our body lost the possibility to respond itself, because it's like, oh, you give me these, okay. If you give me, eat every day, every day, food, food, food without that I do nothing, I don't force myself to go for look, because you give me. So, this is important, that this holistic treatment is important for, because our body is the best machine in healing itself.

- I agree, and I have a couple of more questions here. One of the ones is that a lot of people in the U.S.A. seem to think, that ozone therapy is very widely used in Europe and I know, that is kind of the scientific bet, especially Italy is kind of scientific bet of ozone therapy, but could you explain, what the actual state of ozone therapy in Europe is?

- So, in Europe we are using ozone therapy in Italy, we have two association, three association, ozone association, this is one of other problem, that we have. In Germany too, Doctor Freedman, they have one German, one ozone association, they are using as complementary medicine without any, there are some from the authority, from the health authority, they have no problem. Also in Italy we don't have problem, but as I told you before, most of the people doing these, because the patient start to ask, and also the minister of health is not not approval, but accepted the Society of Ozone Therapy inside the databank of the medical association in Italy. So this is very strong step, that we have in Italy, not to formalize to approval, but to make possible to spread the treatment among other possibilities. There are more , problems, that how we can prepare these doses? So, I was professor of pharmacology. In my university, in the medical faculty, I teach molecular pharmacology to my students. There are no . So what they know now is because myself, I tried to study myself, or some society organizes some courses, but not official course. So, we do not have a university level , that can form, that can give the right knowledge to doctors, that want to start to do this kind of therapy. This is a big problem, also if always I say, that is very, very, very difficult to , doctors must be very, very hard to do hard, because ozone is very safe. Also if we have different possibilities to blood administer also, usually , in this context it's very important, that we can use good generators, good generator that is very important, because usually for our medicine, so we don't go to the pharmacy to buy Voltaren or Diclophenac or Bentonac and inject. We are preparing our medicine here. So in the same times, we are the medical doctors and the manufacturer. They must take care in this moment, because it's very important, that sometimes we have some people, some doctors, that publish data against ozone therapy, telling, infection, disease, infection, but the problem was the technique used, not the ozone. So it is very difficult sometimes try to defend ourself from this very strange.

- I think that runs me, well, I do have one more question actually, this is more of side question. I recently did a video on ozone therapy in athletics, and there is honestly kind of an underwhelming amout of clinical data on athletes using ozone, but from your opinion, do you think, that ozone therapy improves athletic performance?

- Sure. It's like any kind of energy, but, so, one day one colleagues asked me, hey, Lamberto, how much oxygen we have in our body after ozone therapy? The same like before. What we have, we increased the delivery of oxygen to tissues, just simple, but we cannot take the same results, if we try in our body for one month. So, now, tomorrow I start to do, to walk for one kilometer every day, me, because I simply increased the biochemical, the physiological pathways, that are related to muscular activity. So the cells, when we give small amounts of ozone, can increase their behavior. So, I think better, so, there are students, that before giving an examination in the university come here to do ozone therapy, and the neuron, but not because they're given medicine. Is our body, that start to perform better, it's normal. It's normal. It's like diet, so if I eat every day spaghetti, spaghetti, bread, bread, spaghetti and wine, one wine, so my body fight, but if I have a good diet, my body will be perfect. It is absolutely normal, so ozone reduce the damage of the life on the Earth, simply. So, we feel better, sure, sure, but does not mean, that is doping, absolutely. Doping is anabolizing, doping is erythropoietin, when I increase the red blood cells, then increase the transportation of oxygen. I do nothing of this, I simply give our body, please, work better as you can.

- Doctor Re, thank you for talking with us today. You are a pharmacologist from Italy. You went to Cuba and came back a changed man. I'm sure your colleagues thought you were crazy at the time, but it seems like it's been very long, but a very good journey for you in studying ozone therapy, and I just wanted to thank you very much for taking the time just to talk with us today.

- So, I thank you very much and I hope to see you in your country, so when the next time, when I will be in your country, it will be my pleasure to see your talk with you about this.

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